Hot Topic: Caffeinated Beverages

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John
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Re: Hot Topic: Caffeinated Beverages

Post by John »

Here's another comment from Heber J. Grant in Chapter 17 of "The Teachings of Heber J. Grant"
Politics reminds me very much of the measles. The measles don’t hurt much if you will take a little saffron [herbal] tea or something else to keep them on the surface. But if they once set in on you, they turn your hide yellow and sometimes make you cross-eyed. So do not let politics set in on you. I believe absolutely in the best men for the office.
TEA:
1.the dried and prepared leaves of a shrub, Camellia sinensis, from which a somewhat bitter, aromatic beverage is prepared by infusion in water.
2.the shrub itself, extensively cultivated in China, Japan, India, etc., and having fragrant white flowers.
3.the beverage so prepared, served hot or iced.
4.any kind of leaves, flowers, etc., so used, or any plant yielding them
5.any of various infusions prepared from the leaves, flowers, etc., of other plants, and used as beverages or medicines.

Sounds to me that President Grant, even though it was not the focus of his statement, here acknowledges the usefulness, the healthful benefits, of herbs, And in this instance even uses the word "tea" to describe their appropriate preparation. Perhaps it may be wise to help children make this same kind of distinction in the use of the word "tea" so that they do not grow up condemning those who perfectly reasonably partake of herbal drinks prepared in "tea" form. The word "tea" does not refer solely to drinks made from the leaves of the "tea" tree, which are the "teas" specifically proscribed in the Word of Wisdom. President Grant did not need to contort the language by referring to "...a little steeped saffron infused herbal preparation" to make his point about politics. He appropriately and simply used the word "tea" in its alternate definition.

In a similar vein, we don't eliminate the use of the word "herb" just because some "herbs" happen to be tobacco and marijuana.

Let it also be understood that in Joseph Smith's day, the word "herb" referred not just to flavorings, spices, and leaves, but to ALL of what we now call "vegetables". In our day we refer to "fruits and vegetables". In his day, the phrase would have been, "fruits and herbs". This sheds a clarifying light on the Word of Wisdom. But let's not get bogged down in semantic silliness.
Last edited by John on Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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John
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Re: Hot Topic: Caffeinated Beverages

Post by John »

Another thing:

A coffee table is a coffee table even if coffee is never served on it. A living room might well be furnished with a library table. That doesn't necessarily transform it into a library. Or it might include an end table or a lamp table or a taboret. If there's a parson's table behind the couch, that doesn't mean that it is there to be used for the parson. In fact, you may never have a parson in your home. It's still a parson's table. If your children grow up in a home with a coffee table where coffee is never served, they will not associate a coffee table with the drinking of that beverage. And the use of the term "coffee table" will not contribute to the temptation toward the consumption of coffee.
"Music's golden tongue flatter'd to tears this aged man and poor."
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Steve
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Re: Hot Topic: Caffeinated Beverages

Post by Steve »

Regardless, I think I prefer avoiding it altogether. There are plenty of ways that my family and I can obtain healthy nutrients without tea—plenty of ways. I would rather avoid the term altogether so that my daughters do not grow confused in their later years as they try to determine which kinds of tea are ok and which are forbidden. It's obviously a cloudy, confusing area for some. In my opinion, that risk of confusion is simply not worth any perceived health benefits. So we simply practice abstinence from all tea in our home and there's never a question. Tradition may make that difficult for some to encourage, but it reminds me very much of John A. Widtsoe's comments in General Conference regarding "hot drinks":
The revelation says "hot drinks," but before the revelation was a year old, "hot drinks" were defined to include tea and coffee. Those who read the revelation intelligently understand that it has reference to all drugs or substances that act upon the human body to produce a constant desire for them. All habit-forming substances are included. Perhaps right here is one reason why we quibble about the meaning of the Word of Wisdom. When a taste is begotten, a habit is established, or when our appetites are concerned, almost every one of us is inclined to quibble just a little so that we may satisfy that appetite.
I think we all tend to quibble a bit just to ensure that our tastes and preferences are protected from scrutiny. I know I do in one way or another. Drink herbal tea as you like, but I find it much simpler to tell my daughters we don't drink tea without having to put an asterisk at the end of the sentence. That's simply our choice, though!

I also have no problem at all with referring to a coffee table in a living space as a living room table. Coffee is expressly forbidden. Trivial matter with the use of the word to describe furniture? Yes, it surely is. Yet, whenever I can remove foul words from my daily lexicon and replace them with better words, that's probably better! It's just another simple way of focusing on better things in the home. Again, a very trivial thing far down the list of parental priorities, but while we're on the topic, I will go ahead and state my opinion that I think it's the better way.
When God can do what he will with a man, the man may do what he will with the world.     ~George MacDonald
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Tuly
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Re: Hot Topic: Caffeinated Beverages

Post by Tuly »

Your right you get to decide what is best for your family. I only hope some of my granddaughters will forgive their foul herbal tea drinking grandma.
"Condemn me not because of mine imperfection,... but rather give thanks unto God that he hath made manifest unto you our imperfections, that ye may learn to be more wise than we have been." Mormon 9:31
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Steve
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Re: Hot Topic: Caffeinated Beverages

Post by Steve »

Well, you have so many other lovely qualities, I'm sure they'll gladly look past this disgraceful vice. :lol:
When God can do what he will with a man, the man may do what he will with the world.     ~George MacDonald
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Steve
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Re: Hot Topic: Caffeinated Beverages

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Patriarch Hyrum Smith delivered an address to the Saints in Nauvoo, in 1842, in which he declared that hot drinks include tea and coffee, and this interpretation was accepted by the Church. However, all hot drinks, whether they are stimulants or not, are harmful to the body. This discourse, which was published in the Times and Seasons, Vol. 3:799-801, and in the Era, Vol. 4, should be read by all, for the timely instruction it contains.

(Joseph Fielding Smith, Church History and Modern Revelation, 1:385)
We are consistent and in harmony with the spirit of the revelation in affirming that hot drinks as specified in the Word of Wisdom comprised the common beverages then and, less exclusively, since, taken hot. The commonest of these were and are tea and coffee, but the inhibition applies further to the drinking of any liquids at a high temperature.

(James E. Talmage, Improvement Era, vol. 20, p. 556)
There are many hot drinks. It is admitted that continuous taking of excessively hot substances into the mouth and stomach is harmful to health. It is well, therefore, to avoid such practices.

(Mark E. Petersen, A Word of Wisdom)
The sisters may inquire, "What can we do?" Rule your own passions, and exercise faith until you can govern and control your appetites, instead of drinking tea, coffee, and hot drinks.

(Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 8:283)
When God can do what he will with a man, the man may do what he will with the world.     ~George MacDonald
James
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Re: Hot Topic: Caffeinated Beverages

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Ian
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Re: Hot Topic: Caffeinated Beverages

Post by Ian »

the church published an official statement about the word of wisdom yesterday:
The Word of Wisdom is a law of health for the physical and spiritual benefit of God's children. It includes instruction about what foods are good for us and those substances to avoid. Over time, Church leaders have provided additional instruction on those things that are encouraged or forbidden by the Word of Wisdom, and have taught that substances that are destructive, habit-forming or addictive should be avoided.

In recent publications for Church members, Church leaders have clarified that several substances are prohibited by the Word of Wisdom, including vaping or e-cigarettes, green tea, and coffee-based products. They also have cautioned that substances such as marijuana and opioids should be used only for medicinal purposes as prescribed by a competent physician.
this statement links to a recent new era article which includes the following counsel in relation to coffee and tea:
Mocha, Latte, Macchiato, Etc.
The word coffee isn’t always in the name of coffee drinks. So, before you try what you think is just some new milkshake flavor, here are a couple of rules of thumb: (1) If you’re in a coffee shop (or any other shop that’s well-known for its coffee), the drink you’re ordering probably has coffee in it, so either never buy drinks at coffee shops or always ask if there’s coffee in it. (2) Drinks with names that include café or caffé, mocha, latte, espresso, or anything ending in -ccino usually have coffee in them and are against the Word of Wisdom.

Green Tea, Iced Tea
Green tea and black tea are both made from the leaves of the exact same tea plant. The only difference is that the leaves in black tea are fermented and in green tea they’re not. They’re both tea and against the Word of Wisdom. Some drinks have tea in them but don’t advertise that fact, so always check the ingredients. Also, iced tea is still tea.
wise counsel here: "never buy drinks at coffee shops" and "always check the ingredients."
so let it be written... so let it be done.
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