PLEASE READ - a personal essay by Betsy Croft

[Betsy]

This is an important thing I wrote. I am not willing to participate in the Huntington Family Forum any longer, as I do not believe it to be an effective mode of communication. However, as this website still exists on the public sphere, I need to let anyone who visits this website know about some important philosophical distinctions within this group of people. I want future generations of children to know who I am and not to let me be grouped into popular viewpoints of our time. There is so much more than this that I could write, but this is the amount I am choosing to put forth at this time.

My name is Betsy Huntington Croft and I am an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I believe in a redeeming Savior, who is Jesus Christ. He is my ultimate example and I worship Him. I believe in being obedient to the laws of the gospel as it was set forth by Jesus Christ when He came to earth.

I believe in the Book of Mormon, I support church charities, and do all I can to be worthy to go to the temple. I believe the temple is a place where much pure doctrine is found, untarnished by the interpretations of men. When the prophets say that they learn something new every time they go to the temple, I believe them. I believe in doing saving work for the dead, whilst not forgetting the ministering to the needs of the living.

I do not believe that humans on this earth are capable of being perfect. Therefore I do not take a literalist approach to the inspired counsel of the Lord’s chosen apostles. Prophets in our church’s history have spoken both as prophets and as men. I do not spend much time worrying about differentiating between the two. Instead I look to God and strive to do as the Savior taught. I am at ease knowing that God is at the helm, and that I am not required to worship my church leaders as Gods. I still honor and sustain the prophets. I also know that as a result of the heavens not being closed, God has yet to reveal many great and important things concerning the kingdom of God.

I believe in doing good to my fellow men. I believe that my job is support my brothers and sisters, not to judge them. I believe in the separation of church and state. I believe that conservatism in the church has helped us in some ways, but failed us in many ways. I do not believe that bigotry and intolerance is God’s way of dealing with His children. Therefore I do not discriminate based on race, religion, creed or sexual orientation. I believe for any church to do this systematically is of men, and not of God. I know through the power of the Holy Ghost that discrimination is wrong.

I am a lover of justice and mercy. I seek for new answers regularly, and do not stop when I think I have arrived at the right one. I espouse progressive philosophies, which I am proud to have inherited from my Mormon ancestors in the early days of the church. I am also a feminist, and do not prescribe to the notion of gendered roles. I believe we all have a great work to do, and whether that work is done by male or female, matters not to me. I wish for all people to have equal opportunities to do great things, inside and outside the home. I believe children are blessings from God who deserve loving parents. Excluding non-nuclear families can lead to resentment and undue heartache. Therefore I celebrate the family in the many forms that they take on this earth. When there is love, there is family.

I am anti-violence and believe war is evil. I believe in gun safety and in reserving its use for those who truly need them.

I am also a moral relativist, which means that I do not take a black and white approach to codes of conduct. This is the approach that the Pharisees took, and the lesson from them is to not get so caught up in dogma as to reject Christ when He is staring you in the face.

I am a devoted member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I have no plans of leaving it. I reject my family’s culture of calling deeply held beliefs “apostate”. We can do better than this. Rather than feel dejected and hurt by this clear offense, I ask you to rise up and support me in my journey, as I so desire to do for you. I will never, ever, endeavor to save another family member from the wrongness of their ways. I ask simply, and eternally plead to be accepted for who I am, for this presents no risk to any of us. Christ will be my judge. All my faults are known to Him. Families were made for us to learn how to accept and love despite differences. We do each other no favors by striving to be an authority over one another. We are a very richly blessed family of good fortune and promise. We have so many positive things to find in each other, which becomes desecrated when we search for error.

[Tuly]

I plead to you Betsy to not leave the website. We need your voice and love you...words can not tell. Being the good person you are I ask that you will forgive those who have offended you. And again plead that there be no more name calling to each other as family members. That there be more compassion and understanding and let us remove the "mote" in our eyes before we feel the inclination of fixing other people. You are allowed to your opinions, we have pages and pages of that in this website. We now in my opinion need to progress an work more on understanding and compassion...please...we can do this.

[Steve]

I love this. Thanks, Betsy, for posting your honest life views. I think many of us have struggled to understand one another because we've been operating under the assumption that certain truths are self-evident in the Church and that we were all on the same page, at least concerning fundamentals. Having a clear declaration of what individuals believe about an issue, or in this case, having a summary of beliefs about a wide range of issues contributes a great deal to my coming to know you better. I'll add an acknowledgement that this is only knowing you as you are in September 2017, which is why ongoing family dialog and not pigeon-holing individuals—any of us—is so important. So thank you.

I think it's plain to see in all of our interactions that families can provide much more for their members than merely "learning to accept and love despite differences." So much additional learning can take place! Errors can be corrected. Encouragement given. All of the best things in life stem from God and the family relationships He instituted. I think we short-change ourselves when we limit what can be gained from family to merely the pleasantries of association and/or congenial support for whatever we think we are. Families can and should challenge us, focusing primarily on what we can become. Lily and others do not leave me as they found me. They stretch me, help me identify flaws and weaknesses, expand my knowledge and understanding, and inspire me to stay focused on eternal truths instead of worldly fancies. This occurs in ways that make me smile, and it occurs in serious, soul-searching discussions where I hear uncomfortable things about myself and make difficult choices in response.

If our sole purpose in communication is to exchange fetal wisdom with other living things in order to solicit an acknowledgement of our coexistence, we will miss the majority of what this life was intended to achieve. Our buckets should be made to hold water and our foundations should be strengthened (or shattered). When criticism comes—and how fortunate if it comes from family—we get to choose how to respond. Do we consider it? Do we dismiss it? Do we hold intellectual/spiritual grudges against someone because of a perceived slight? Do we keep growing? Do we ask God if what we're hearing is right? Is He pleased with our philosophies and actions, or do we only hope so?

For as much love and nurturing as we offer the various members of society, we really should be better about attending to those in our families. Why raise a banner in support of any other cause when we shun our own cause? For better or worse (and I say better), God has placed each of us in this family, with these individuals, at this time. It's certainly the more alluring route to champion the petition of a stranger when the cause of improving spousal, parental, and sibling relationships is glaring at us in the home. If indeed a sibling is esteemed as an enemy in your eyes, all the more reason to dedicate a lifetime to engage him or her to see what good may come of it. Indeed, if you love your enemy, and do good to him that hates you, you will love him and do good to him.

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@Mom
I am not sure where the name-calling charge is being directed. Do we have a source we can look to in order to examine that issue, see what it's about, and provide an opportunity for the defendant to account for it? We can certainly discuss it in the family council thread if needs be.

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Let's not over-complicate these situations (or fling our arms up in hopeless exasperation). It's not only normal—it's universal—that families will face challenges, disagreements, and heartache. If we give up and cast the relationships aside, we lose. But struggling through some hard conversations and figuring things out takes time, it takes effort, and we'll all learn in the process. It's why we came here, and the Lord commands us to endure to the end. Our work in this regard has only just begun. I look forward to it!

[Ian]

the pharisees were rebuked because “all their works they do for to be seen of men.” they sought the world’s approval, rather than God’s approval.

aside from polemicizing against priesthood authority and modern revelation, and attacking our most cherished and basic doctrines, this essay “seeketh her own.” emphasis added:

This is an important thing I wrote. I am not willing to participate in the Huntington Family Forum any longer, as I do not believe it to be an effective mode of communication. However, as this website still exists on the public sphere, I need to let anyone who visits this website know about some important philosophical distinctions within this group of people. I want future generations of children to know who I am and not to let me be grouped into popular viewpoints of our time. There is so much more than this that I could write, but this is the amount I am choosing to put forth at this time.

My name is Betsy Huntington Croft and I am an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I believe in a redeeming Savior, who is Jesus Christ. He is my ultimate example and I worship Him. I believe in being obedient to the laws of the gospel as it was set forth by Jesus Christ when He came to earth.

I believe in the Book of Mormon, I support church charities, and do all I can to be worthy to go to the temple. I believe the temple is a place where much pure doctrine is found, untarnished by the interpretations of men. When the prophets say that they learn something new every time they go to the temple, I believe them. I believe in doing saving work for the dead, whilst not forgetting the ministering to the needs of the living.

I do not believe that humans on this earth are capable of being perfect. Therefore I do not take a literalist approach to the inspired counsel of the Lord’s chosen apostles. Prophets in our church’s history have spoken both as prophets and as men. I do not spend much time worrying about differentiating between the two. Instead I look to God and strive to do as the Savior taught. I am at ease knowing that God is at the helm, and that I am not required to worship my church leaders as Gods. I still honor and sustain the prophets. I also know that as a result of the heavens not being closed, God has yet to reveal many great and important things concerning the kingdom of God.

I believe in doing good to my fellow men. I believe that my job is support my brothers and sisters, not to judge them. I believe in the separation of church and state. I believe that conservatism in the church has helped us in some ways, but failed us in many ways. I do not believe that bigotry and intolerance is God’s way of dealing with His children. Therefore I do not discriminate based on race, religion, creed or sexual orientation. I believe for any church to do this systematically is of men, and not of God. I know through the power of the Holy Ghost that discrimination is wrong.

I am a lover of justice and mercy. I seek for new answers regularly, and do not stop when I think I have arrived at the right one. I espouse progressive philosophies, which I am proud to have inherited from my Mormon ancestors in the early days of the church. I am also a feminist, and do not prescribe to the notion of gendered roles. I believe we all have a great work to do, and whether that work is done by male or female, matters not to me. I wish for all people to have equal opportunities to do great things, inside and outside the home. I believe children are blessings from God who deserve loving parents. Excluding non-nuclear families can lead to resentment and undue heartache. Therefore I celebrate the family in the many forms that they take on this earth. When there is love, there is family.

I am anti-violence and believe war is evil. I believe in gun safety and in reserving its use for those who truly need them.

I am also a moral relativist, which means that I do not take a black and white approach to codes of conduct. This is the approach that the Pharisees took, and the lesson from them is to not get so caught up in dogma as to reject Christ when He is staring you in the face.

I am a devoted member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I have no plans of leaving it. I reject my family’s culture of calling deeply held beliefs “apostate”. We can do better than this. Rather than feel dejected and hurt by this clear offense, I ask you to rise up and support me in my journey, as I so desire to do for you. I will never, ever, endeavor to save another family member from the wrongness of their ways. I ask simply, and eternally plead to be accepted for who I am, for this presents no risk to any of us. Christ will be my judge. All my faults are known to Him. Families were made for us to learn how to accept and love despite differences. We do each other no favors by striving to be an authority over one another. We are a very richly blessed family of good fortune and promise. We have so many positive things to find in each other, which becomes desecrated when we search for error.

[Tuly]

Is this necessary? what are you hoping your sister that you "love " feel after reading something like this ? I do not approve. Could you not talk to her about this - one on one - rather than putting her on display as a "pharisee"? I guess you really want her to leave the website. I do not approve. Is this more of a statement to us your parents?
I do not approve.
Actually I would appreciate it if that was deleted.

[Ian]

i suppose you could have talked to me one on one as well. betsy wrote about pharisees and i responded to that. this essay is public and i'm responding publicly.

[James]

honor thy father and thy mother, brother.

the public shaming paraded above pushes me away from HFW. intimate personal relationships build trust and openness. i am not safe to share much here because of the example above.

i thank you, betsy, for posting such a personal and wonderful essay.

[Steve]

I will say that if a post like Ian's comment above keeps family members from sharing their honest views on things, what's really the point of holding a view? Surely we were careful enough in developing our life's philosophies that disagreement, even boldly presented, would not harm us. I've shared my thoughts about Betsy's post above, so you can see how I received it. However, I wouldn't think that anyone's position on the things that matter in life would be so fragile that they wouldn't hold up when scrutinized even by someone who strongly disagrees. We're not voting for our favorite posts on this site. You don't win any prizes from the Huntington family if your post is the most popular, or if it receives universal acclaim.

We are family! We share our thoughts with others, and others respond with their thoughts. What's the difference between criticizing a response and criticizing the post being responded to? In either case, the views of a person are being published. There should be opportunities for participation from both sides of the issue, and opportunities to support our arguments with clear evidence. Those who claim this is not a "safe place" may not truly appreciate the meaning of the word "safe." Truly, the most dangerous places to spend a lot of time are those places where praise and validation find us no matter what choices we're making.

[James]

many of the witches burned were not fragile snowflakes but strong women. when you bring up peoples supposedly fragile positions and claim that people who do not feel safe do not know what safe means you are minimizing the potential damage caused by bullying that has verifiably been displayed on this website. sure, unbridled praise and validation make for stale relationships, but unfortunately thats not really what's going on here on HFW. we can spend countless hours arguing about carl jung, evolution, gun control, socialism, black and white thinking, without building deep interpersonal connections, love, and trust. have fun waging your war of truth and righteousness, guys.

[Steve]

Frankly, James, it seems a bit selfish and hypocritical to accuse others of not fostering interpersonal connections while threatening to abandon them. Where is your thread on connections? Or love? Or trust? What are you doing to build strong interpersonal relationships in the Huntington family? Do you love and attend to each member, including those who disagree with you? Do you spend substantial time engaged with them? Do you praise and encourage their strengths? In short, do you do the things you claim are missing here? Was your last post an example of the kind of tone you'd like to see more of from others?

This isn't an attack. I'm merely suggesting that when we take a "victim" approach, we'll always be the victim. Let's put our heads together and figure out how to improve communication. I'd gladly join a discussion on that topic.

[James]

"Frankly, James, it seems a bit selfish and hypocritical to accuse others of not fostering interpersonal connections while threatening to abandon them"

I'm responding to bullying and other types of harmful and egregious behavior displayed on HFW.

"Was your last post an example of the kind of tone you'd like to see more of from others?"

No. I felt inclined to be a little less than lamb in tone and content in response to egregious behavior.

"I'm merely suggesting that when we take a "victim" approach, we'll always be the victim."

Not sure I'm taking the victim approach.

My final thought on this thread is honor they father and thy mother, brother.

[Steve]

I understand that you're upset, James, but we really should behave how we wish others to behave. My point, even if cliché, is that you have to be the change you're looking for. You can't simply march into a room screaming "Stop screaming!" Show us what being kind looks like. Show us how a loving person would talk. I mentioned that you were taking a victim approach because you expect everyone else to change in order to solve the problems you see. If you love your family, you might stop blaming it, and start helping it instead.

I'd be glad to assist you—I'd join forces with someone who puts effort into making things better. Popping in, dropping a few "indignant" remarks, and running away, just doesn't seem like it accomplishes anything at all. One might even call it "egregious."

EDIT: I'll say again that 2 and 3 in the following scenarios are not so different:
1) Person A publishes a statement.
2) Person B publishes a strong response to Person A's statement.
3) Person C publishes a strong response to Person B's statement.

[Ian]

this is not a personal essay. this is a hit piece. it is a veiled attack against the church for its position on marriage and family.

it declares obedience to the gospel “as it was set forth” in the meridian of time. by drawing a distinction between ancient and modern revelation, it takes a subtle jab at modern prophets.

it continues by stating that the temple “is a place where much pure doctrine is found, untarnished by the interpretations of men.” this is immediately followed by a statement that prophets learn something new every time they go to the temple. the implication is that prophetic utterances are tantamount to the interpretations of men. another subtle jab at modern prophets.

it continues: humans are imperfect; “therefore,” do not take a “literalist approach” to prophetic counsel. the implication is that modern prophets are imperfect; therefore, follow their counsel selectively. another subtle jab.

it continues: do not differentiate between prophets speaking as prophets or speaking as men, but “instead” look to God. the implication is that we should not listen to prophets. another subtle jab.

it continues: we are not required to “worship” church leaders. the implication is that we should not follow church leaders. another subtle jab.

the foundation is laid. now for the main attack: any church that “systematically” discriminates on the basis of sexual orientation is of men, and not of God. the implication is that our church systematically discriminates on the basis of sexual orientation. therefore our church is of men, and not of God.

it proceeds to attack other doctrines of the church regarding the family. it does not “prescribe to the notion of gendered roles.” this directly contradicts church doctrine regarding the roles of mothers and fathers. it desires "equal opportunities to do great things, inside and outside the home," an obvious affront to the sacred and elevated status of homemakers. it celebrates “non-nuclear” families, as if to mock the church’s definition of family.

schools teach that essays should have a thesis statement. no clear thesis statement here, but we get the main idea.

[Tuly]

I will not scrutinize your comments Ian. I will express my feelings on your post. I do not feel it productive to publicly castigate Betsy's essay, I do not approve of demeaning a family member. Again it should be done one on one , my understanding of civility is that it entails respect and courteousness.

[Steve]

Just out of curiosity, what is "demeaning" about Ian's response? Betsy chose the public discussion venue for her post. It is being publicly discussed. Ian's response may lack warmth, but it does a pretty thorough job of describing the implications of what's been said. Online communication on a family web site is a blessing and a curse. It's a blessing in that it allows asynchronous connection and a thoughtful response, but it's also a curse (and/or blessing) in that one's words persist for all to read, including for our children and other visitors. With these audiences in mind, I see no problem with including a reaction to falsehood when it's presented publicly. Respecting the fact that all may formulate their own beliefs and opinions, we have an obligation to correct false teachings. Unfortunately, pulling aside a public author to discuss our concerns in private does little for the persistent authorship that will speak the words publicly on this web site for years to come. That is one reason why public posts should be responded to publicly.

EDIT: I will add that I have had a number of thoughts regarding Betsy's post. I have restrained myself from responding for some time, opting to discuss James' posts about the thread with him instead. I am pondering the best way to discuss all of these things, but I do find it interesting to see how accusation and indignation are endorsed for use by one side but not the other. In other words, it seems like it's okay to criticize some parties for their approach, but not okay to criticize the others. I'm not sure I understand the rationale for the double standard, but regardless, we all have much to work on. We'll all continue to do the best we can.