Fatherhood

[Tuly]

This subject has been on my mind for a while. I have been disturbed by the poor examples the media puts on this subject. Most fathers are viewed as dead beat dads, lazy, undependable, clueless to what is going on in their families(e.g.Night at the Museum, War of the Worlds) . The examples of fathers in my family have been basically positive. I knew my father till he died, I was 10 years old, and he left me with good nurturing memories. John, is the father of our seven children. If I could describe his fathering, I would describe it as someone who loved children and who always saw the best in them. Yeah, I know this isn't Father's Day, but what better time than now. John, has been an incredible father, to him, fathering has been his best and most enjoyable accomplishment. I know he isn't perfect, but I have never seen any one try so hard. It is very hard to be a father in these times, there is so much husband and father bashing going around. Everyone, expects so much from them and all expect 100% from them. I pray that within our families we can change the negative examples that are in the media, and help support good fathering. Here is a website I have enjoyed reading.http://fatherwork.byu.edu/index.htm
consequently, can we name positive "fathering movies".

[John]

Gregory Peck ... "The Yearling"
Gregory Peck ... "To Kill a Mockingbird"
Whathisnorwegianname ... "The Farmer's Daughter"
John Barrymore (or is it Lionel?) ... "You Can't Take It With You"
Spencer Tracy ... "Father of the Bride" (ignore the 1950's stereotyping)
Spencer Tracy ... "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner"
whatshisname ... Frederic March? ... "Cheaper by the Dozen" (NOT steve martin!)
whatshisname ... Frederic March? ... "Life With Father"
whatshisname ... Frederic March? ... "Meet Me in St. Louis"C
Whatshisbeautifulface ... "How Green Was My Valley"
Robert Donat ... "Goodbye Mr. Chips" (I know, I know ... but remember his last words!) A beautiful example of how one need not BE the father to DO the fathering.

[Tuly]

Happy Father's Day John, Ian and Steve!! - I do appreciate the taking of this very important calling seriously in your lives.

[Tuly]

I actually started this thread 2008. After hearing April General Conference, the book Fatherless America - Confronting our Most Urgent Social problem by David Blankenhorn was mentioned by
Elder Christofferson in his talk Fathers https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng

I finally purchased the book and agree that it is one of the most urgent social problems.

David Blankenhorn, the author of Fatherless America, has observed: “Today, American society is fundamentally divided and ambivalent about the fatherhood idea. Some people do not even remember it. Others are offended by it. Others, including more than a few family scholars, neglect it or disdain it. Many others are not especially opposed to it, nor are they especially committed to it. Many people wish we could act on it, but believe that our society simply no longer can or will.”

Elder Holland also mentioned the book. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng
General Conference April1999 - The Hands of the Fathers

For that reason and many others, I suppose no book I have read in recent months has alarmed me more than a work entitled Fatherless America. In this study the author speaks of “fatherlessness” as “the most harmful demographic trend of this generation,” the leading cause of damage to children. It is, he is convinced, the engine driving our most urgent social problems, from poverty to crime to adolescent pregnancy to child abuse to domestic violence. Among the principal social issues of our time is the flight of fathers from their children’s lives.

Elder Perry also quote from the book. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... g?lang=eng
General Conference April 2004 - Fatherhood, an Eternal Calling

Increased youth violence, youth crime, greater poverty and economic insecurity, and the failure of increasing numbers of children in our schools offer clear evidence of lack of a positive influence of fathers in the homes.

Elder Maxwell quotes from this Blankenhorn article. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng
General Conference April 1995 - "Deny Yourselves of All Ungodliness"

Consider this sobering forecast: “About 40 percent of U.S. children will go to sleep in homes in which their fathers do not live” (David Blankenhorn, “Life without Father,” USA Weekend, 26 Feb. 1995, pp. 6–7).

Some estimate this will rise to 60 percent. This same commentator has written, “Fatherlessness is the engine driving our most urgent social problems, from crime to adolescent pregnancy to domestic violence” (ibid., p. 7).

[Tuly]

I appreciated this article From Prager University -
https://www.prageru.com/courses/politic ... ers-matter

I'm so grateful that our gospel puts the roles of parenthood as a priority in the doctrine of families. We need to role of good fatherhood to be prominent in our children's lives, not just to be present. We have after all the example of our Heavenly Father as an example of a great Father.

Years ago, I interviewed Kweisi Mfume, then the president of the NAACP. “As between the presence of white racism and the absence of black fathers,” I asked, “Which poses the bigger threat to the black community?” Without missing a beat, he said, “The absence of black fathers.”

It was President Barack Obama who said, "We all know the statistics. That children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of school and 20 times more likely to end up in prison.”

The Journal of Research on Adolescence confirms that even after controlling for varying levels of household income, kids in father-absent homes are more likely to end up in jail. And kids who never had a father in the house are the most likely to wind up behind bars.

In 1960, 5 percent of America's children entered the world without a mother and father married to each other. By 1980 it was 18 percent, by 2000 it had risen to 33 percent, and fifteen years later, the number reached 41 percent.

For blacks, even during slavery when marriage for slaves was illegal, black children were more likely than today to be raised by both their mother and father. Economist Walter Williams has written that, according to census data, from 1890 to 1940, a black child was more likely to grow up with married parents than a white child.

For blacks, out-of-wedlock births have gone from 25 percent in 1965 to 73 percent in 2015. For whites, from less than 5 percent to over 25 percent. And for Hispanics, out-of-wedlock births have risen to 53 percent.

What happened to fathers?

The answer is found in a basic law of economics: If you subsidize undesirable behavior you will get more undesirable behavior. In 1949, the nation’s poverty rate was 34 percent. By 1965, it was cut in half, to 17 percent -- all before President Lyndon Johnson’s so-called War on Poverty. But after that war began in 1965, poverty began to flat line. From 1965 until now, the government has spent over $20 trillion to fight poverty.

The poverty rate has remained unchanged, but the relationship between poor men and women has changed – dramatically. That’s because our generous welfare system allows women, in effect, to marry the government. And this makes it all too easy for men to abandon their traditional moral and financial responsibilities. Psychologists call such dependency "learned helplessness."

How do we know that the welfare state creates disincentives that hurt the very people we are trying to help? They tell us.

In 1985, the Los Angeles Times asked both the poor and the non-poor whether poor women "often" have children to get additional benefits. Most of the non-poor respondents said no. However, 64 percent of poor respondents said yes. Now, who do you think is in a better position to know?

Tupac Shakur, the late rapper, once said: "I know for a fact that had I had a father, I'd have some discipline. I'd have more confidence." He admitted he began running with gangs because he wanted the things a father gives to a child, especially to a boy: structure and protection.

“Your mother cannot calm you down the way a man can,” Shakur said. “You need a man to teach you how to be a man."

In my book "Dear Father, Dear Son," I write about my rough, tough World War II Marine staff sergeant dad. Born in the Jim Crow South of Athens, Ga., he was 14 at the start of the Great Depression. Growing up, I watched my father work two full-time jobs as a janitor. He also cooked for a rich family on the weekends--and somehow managed to go to night school to get his GED. When I was 10, my father opened a small restaurant that he ran until he retired in his mid-80s.

He was never angry or bitter--and insisted that today’s America was very different from the world of racial segregation and limited opportunity in which he grew up. "Hard work wins,” he told me and my brothers. “You get out of life what you put into it. You can’t control the outcome, but you are 100% in control of the effort. And before blaming other people, go to the nearest mirror and ask yourself, ‘what could I have done to change the outcome?’” This advice shaped my life.

Fathers matter. Until we have a government policy that makes that its first priority, nothing will change.

I’m Larry Elder for Prager University.

[Ian]

the first presidency message this month is about fatherhood. president uchtdorf wrote that "each father is a mentor." fathers "do more than tell their children what is right or wrong; they do much more than toss a manual at them and expect them to figure out life for themselves." fathers provide "comprehensive instructions" to their children.

Fathers do not leave their children alone but rush to their aid, helping them to their feet whenever they stumble. And sometimes when wisdom suggests, fathers allow their children to struggle, realizing that this may be the best way for them to learn.

sometimes fathers allow their children to "struggle," but fathers never stand idly by when their children "stumble."

[John]

Would you care to offer some examples of a distinction between struggling and stumbling?

[Ian]

here are my thoughts:

"stumbling" in the scriptures often relates to falling down because of darkness, impaired vision, or pride. in that context "stumble" seems synonymous with making a mistake or committing sin.

"struggling" doesn't appear as often in the scriptures, but enos comes to mind as someone who struggled in prayer. in that context "struggle" seems synonymous with hard work.

president uchtdorf's message seems to be that fathers provide help and guidance "at every turn," and especially when their children make mistakes, although sometimes fathers allow children to learn by their own hard work. still, fathers need to do a lot of the work themselves. "this is my work and my glory..." part of the father's work is to provide "comprehensive instructions" (i think the key word there is "comprehensive").

with regard to "struggling," possible examples would be allowing children to struggle financially, or with their own chores and studies. we also allow them to struggle on their own when they serve as full-time missionaries.

with regard to "stumbling," a classic example comes to mind from elder christofferson:

I have heard a few parents state that they don’t want to impose the gospel on their children but want them to make up their own minds about what they will believe and follow. They think that in this way they are allowing children to exercise their agency. What they forget is that the intelligent use of agency requires knowledge of the truth, of things as they really are (see D&C 93:24). Without that, young people can hardly be expected to understand and evaluate the alternatives that come before them. Parents should consider how the adversary approaches their children. He and his followers are not promoting objectivity but are vigorous, multimedia advocates of sin and selfishness.

Seeking to be neutral about the gospel is, in reality, to reject the existence of God and His authority. We must, rather, acknowledge Him and His omniscience if we want our children to see life’s choices clearly and be able to think for themselves. They should not have to learn by sad experience that “wickedness never was happiness” (Alma 41:10).

I can share with you a simple example from my own life of what parents can do. When I was about five or six years old, I lived across the street from a small grocery store. One day two other boys invited me to go with them to the store. As we stood coveting the candy for sale there, the older boy grabbed a candy bar and slipped it into his pocket. He urged the other boy and me to do the same, and after some hesitation we did. Then we quickly left the store and ran off in separate directions. I found a hiding place at home and tore off the candy wrapper. My mother discovered me with the chocolate evidence smeared on my face and escorted me back to the grocery store. As we crossed the street, I was sure I was facing life imprisonment. With sobs and tears, I apologized to the owner and paid him for the candy bar with a dime that my mother had loaned me (which I had to earn later). My mother’s love and discipline put an abrupt and early end to my life of crime.

Elder D. Todd Christofferson, Moral Discipline, October 2009 General Conference

[Tuly]

Thank you Ian. I absolutely loved your research on those two words. Stumbling and struggling are so closely related that it seems sometimes that it is hard to differentiate them. Your thoughts are very helpful to me.

[Steve]

Yeah, great thoughts! I appreciate these discussions. Thank you.

[Angela]

Elder Christofferson had a good mother.

I can't believe I'm writing this but... there is wisdom when Tupac said "You need a man to teach you how to be a man."

Ian understands things far better than I can about childhood, adolescence, and adulthood for a boy. All children need their father every bit as much as they need the mother. In the family proclamation, we read how mothers and fathers each have their own distinct roles and duties to each other and their children. I think as our boys grow, they will be leaning more and more on their father for certain guidance. I think our roles as parents evolve as our children grow, their needs change and we need to be ready for that now.

[Steve]

You and Tupac aren't kidding, Angela!

Fathers seem best equipped to prepare children to function in the environment outside the family.

One authority states: “Studies show that fathers have a special role to play in building a child’s self-respect. They are important, too, in ways we really don’t understand, in developing internal limits and controls in children.” He continues, “Research also shows that fathers are critical in establishment of gender in children. Interestingly, fatherly involvement produces stronger sexual identity and character in both boys and girls. It is well established that the masculinity of sons and the femininity of daughters are each greater when fathers are active in family life.” (Karl Zinsmeister, “Do Children Need Fathers?” Crisis, Oct. 1992.)

(Elder James E. Faust, Father, Come Home, April 1993 General Conference) ↗