When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

[Ian]

this is from elder john a. widtsoe. i find it very insightful. i bolded some of it for added emphasis.

When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

This is an old question. It was asked of the Prophet Joseph Smith and answered by him. He writes in his journal, "This morning . . . I visited with a brother and sister from Michigan, who thought that `a prophet is always a prophet'; but I told them that a prophet is a prophet only when he was acting as such" (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, 5:265).

That statement makes a clear distinction between official and unofficial actions and utterances of officers of the Church. In this recorded statement the Prophet Joseph Smith recognizes his special right and duty, as the President and Prophet of the Church, under the inspiration of the Lord, to speak authoritatively and officially for the enlightenment and guidance of the Church. But he claims also the right, as other men, to labor and rest, to work and play, to visit and discuss, to present his opinions and hear the opinion of others, to counsel and bless as a member of the Church.

Whenever moved upon by the Spirit of the Lord, the man called to the Prophet's office assumes the prophetic mantle and speaks as a mouthpiece of the Lord. He may then interpret the word of God, apply it to the conditions of the day, governmental, social, or economic, warn against impending evil, point out the better way, bring to light new truth, or bless the righteous in their endeavors. Such inspired deliverances are binding upon all who believe that the latter-day work came and is directed by revelation. There is no appeal from them; no need for debate concerning their validity. They must either be accepted or be subjected to the dangers of private interpretation This has been made plain in modern revelation: "Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his (Joseph's) words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me;

"For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith" (D. & C. 21:4, 5). In this commandment there is no limitation upon the prophet, as to subject, time, or place.

Such official prophetic utterances to the Church are usually made in the great general conferences of the Church, or in signed statements circulated among the people. The phrase "Thus sayeth the Lord" may at times be used; but is not necessary. When the prophet speaks to the people in an official gathering or over his signature, he speaks as the Lord directs him. If a new doctrine or practice be involved in the revelation, it is presented to the people for acceptance, in recognition of the free agency of the Church itself, but once accepted, it is thereafter binding upon every member.

Though the prophet may step out of his official role in dealing with the daily affairs of life, he can never divest himself of the spirit and influence which belong to the sacred office which the Lord has placed upon him. The faith and readiness to do the work of the Lord which fitted him for his high office, shape his life in harmony with the eternal principles and purposes of the gospel. Though often humble by the world's measure, in gifts and ability, he lives under inspired guidance, which makes him great among men, and therefore, his unofficial expressions carry greater weight than the opinions of other men of equal or greater gifts and experience but without the power of the prophetic office. It would be wisdom on all occasions and with respect to all subjects in any field of human activity, to hearken to the prophet's voice. There is safety and ultimate happiness in following the counsel that may be received from the prophet.

Men are called to the prophetic office because of their humility and their willingness to be in the hands of the Lord as clay in the hands of the potter. Yet a man called to the prophetic office is almost without exception of high native endowment, often with large experience in life, and possessed of wisdom and sound judgment. That is, the prophet, though but a man, is an able man, rising in ability above the multitude. An examination of sacred history from Adam to the present will show that able men, in the words of Jethro, men "such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness" (Ex. 18:21), have been called to the prophetic office. The unofficial views and expressions of such a man with respect to any vital subject, should command respectful attention. Wise men seek the counsel of those wiser or abler than themselves.

Every member of the Church, and all men for that matter, would do well to give heed, and indeed should do so, to any public utterance or to the unofficial counsel of the man who has been called to the office of prophet. One cannot limit him by saying that on some subjects pertaining to human welfare he may not speak. The spiritual and the temporal have ever been blended in the Church of Christ. Obedience to the counsels of the prophet brings individual and collective power and joy. Of all men, the prophet of the Lord should, at all times, have most influence with the Latter-day Saints. No other cause can be greater than that of the Church of Christ.

How may the rank and file of the Church recognize the prophetic voice, whether official or unofficial, when it speaks? The answer is simple enough. A person who is in harmony in his life, in thought and practice, with the gospel and its requirements, who loves truth so well that he is willing to surrender to it, will recognize a message from the Lord. My sheep know my voice, said the Savior in the Meridian of Time. In this day, the Lord has given the key for our guidance.

Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to preach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?

And if it be by some other way it is not of God.

And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?

If it be some other way it is not of God.

Therefore, why is it that you cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth?

Wherefore, he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are edified and rejoice together. And that which doth not edify is not of God, and is darkness. (D. & C. 50:17-23)

Thus the burden of proof is upon the hearer, not alone upon the speaker. Whoever quibbles about the validity of a message of the prophet would do well to engage in a serious self-examination. Is the trouble with him? Perhaps he is not "in tune" with truth. Perhaps he does not live the law of the gospel in such manner as to respond to the message of truth. President Joseph F. Smith declared that those who honor their own Priesthood first, will honor it in those who preside over them (President Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine , p. 207). That doctrine may be applied when the prophet speaks to the Church or to the world.

Acceptance of the teachings of the prophet does not violate the right of free agency; but rather enhances it. The Lord expects every man to solve, as far as possible, his own problems with the knowledge and power given him. Yet, divine help is often offered to mortal man who labors under the severe limitations of earth life. Every revelation from the Lord is for the increasing welfare of mankind. Always, however, men retain the right to accept or reject the offered gift. Membership in the Church itself is voluntary; is never forced upon a person. Nevertheless, such membership includes the acceptance of a series of principles and ordinances, among them the presence of a prophet to stand as the Lord's spokesman to the Church. When therefore, a Latter-day Saint yields adherence to the Prophet's advice, he merely uses the free agency which led him to membership in the Church. He does not thereby renounce his free agency; instead he reinforces his claim upon it. He follows the prophet because he chooses to do so in view of the doctrine and constitution of the Church in which he voluntarily claims membership. When he fails to give his consent to the prophet's teachings, he limits, reduces, and removes the free agency which brought him into the Church.

In the daily lives of Latter-day Saints it is best to listen carefully to the counsel of the prophet concerning any subject upon which he speaks, whether technically official or unofficial. Note the words of Brigham Young:

The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and He will not suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty. You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a babe in its mother's arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray, for if they should try to do so the Lord would quickly sweep them from the earth. Your leaders are trying to live their religion as far as they are capable of doing so. (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 212)

That is as true today as in the days of President Young.

John A. Widtsoe, Evidences and Reconciliations, pp. 236-239.

[Tuly]

Happy Cinco de Mayo!!
I loved the quote:
.

Every revelation from the Lord is for the increasing welfare of mankind.

It really is for our increasing welfare, not only temporally but obviously spiritual.

[Tuly]

I will eventually start a Hugh Nibley thread. This talk I got from the Neal Maxwell institute (when did this institute get started? - it's great) http://mi.byu.edu/publications/books/?b ... chapid=500

This is the quote that applies to this topic.

What we do claim is that the words of the prophets cannot be held to the tentative and defective tests that men have devised for them. Science, philosophy, and common sense all have a right to their day in court. But the last word does not lie with them. Every time men in their wisdom have come forth with the last word, other words have promptly followed. The last word is a testimony of the gospel that comes only by direct revelation. Our Father in heaven speaks it, and if it were in perfect agreement with the science of today, it would surely be out of line with the science of tomorrow. Let us not, therefore, seek to hold God to the learned opinions of the moment when he speaks the language of eternity.

[Ian]

the naysayers like to tell us that not every statement from a prophet constitutes official church doctrine. they also like to tell us that prophets are fallible men.

i believe these naysayers are looking beyond the mark. i would encourage them to read from elder widtsoe’s evidences and reconciliations, above.

when a prophet speaks, it does not really matter to me whether his message constitutes official church doctrine. it also does not really matter to me whether the prophet is fallible. what matters to me is whether his message is true.

if the prophet’s message is true, then i should give heed. it’s as simple as that.

but i need also be prepared for attacks from the naysayers. they mock us for following the prophets. they compare us with the mentally ill, for our supposed anxiety to get the prophets’ advice on every single decision we make in life. we’re portrayed as naive and foolish. we’re portrayed as imbalanced. we’re told not to take everything the prophets say literally. we’re told not to obsess over their words. we’re told again and again and again that the prophets are fallible men.

i’m always impressed reading about the history of our church. ever since joseph smith, there have been members of our church who were fiercely loyal to the prophets. they always sustained the prophets. they always defended the prophets. they always loved the prophets. in particular i think about brigham young. his loyalty to joseph smith made him a constant target of attack, but without fail he courageously and tenaciously defended joseph. i’m also mindful of our family heritage of loyalty to the prophet. if there is a huntington family slogan, i hope it would be that we are loyal to the prophets. i don’t ever want to find myself on the same side as the naysayers who criticize or demean the prophets, or call attention to their frailties or imperfections. i don’t want anyone to ever doubt my loyalty to the prophets. i’m not their best defender, but i’ll always defend them.

[Steve]

Thanks and amen, Ian. I may be a Mott, but let it also be said of Motts that we love, honor, and sustain these remarkable men. Men and women inside and out will always rage against the Lord's servants. It's just pride. We all choose where we build our houses. Ever since primary, I determined never to be the foolish man in this regard—all the more valuable as these rains come tumbling down.

[Betsy]

I believe Ian is referring directly to me when he calls out the “naysayers”. Well, I don’t know where he gets the idea, but he is free to do whatever he needs to create enemies that actually don’t exist. Your victimhood is further conjured by the idea that you have been mocked. I think you know this has not happened. But you again create a false reality by telling yourself this is true.

It is not true.

I never once said to anybody that they shouldn’t follow the prophets. I never compared anyone to the mentally ill. I love the prophets. I follow them. I do not care that I am falsely accused a naysayer.

But I am concerned about how much emphasis has been placed on this prophet principle. Why? Because members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints do not worship prophets. We worship Christ. That is where our emphasis should be. We are not saved by our works alone, nor are we saved by our sustaining of the prophet. We are saved by God’s grace. Christ’s atoning sacrifice. We are utterly lost without this. Our works are pitiful. To testify of this principle is why a prophet exists. We do not pray to a prophet. We do not pray “in the name of Joseph Smith, Amen”. We revere and honor the prophet because he emphasizes a religious devotion toward Christ. He testifies as a special witness of Christ. In describing a prophets true purpose I am in no way diminishing the special nature of his calling. Humility in their calling is paramount. They do not (should not) puff themselves up and make certain everyone is idolizing their every word. Too much special attention to these men, in a religious context or otherwise, entirely misses the whole point of our religiosity. Christ is the only one, along with God, who can claim the title “infallible”. They alone are perfect. Christ’s perfect life is the one I follow; devote my life, time, and energy to. Through a prophets’ words I should be brought closer to Christ, not to the prophet himself.

If the Huntington’s were to have a legacy, I want it to be that they worshipped Christ. I want it to be that they proclaimed Christ’s love through His atonement. I want people to say “the Huntington’s always followed Christ”. This is the legacy of our church. This is the disciples mission. This is a prophets message to the world. This is our message to the world. Christ lives, and has saved us from eternal damnation. For surely we would be damned, if we were left to ourselves.

[Ian]

"whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same." (doctrine and covenants 1:38)

[Steve]

I believe this is another "scripture mastery" verse:

Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

(Amos 3:7) ↗

[Tuly]

No, I don't think Ian is just referring to just you. A naysayer is defined as a skeptical or cynical person. You have conditions on how you follow the prophet. Correct we don't worship our prophets but we are obedient and hearken to their counsel which in some topics you have been clear you are selective to which you accept counsel and which you don't. Betsy, you well know that when we follow the prophet we follow Christ. I know we are all trying daily to be obedient to His counsel. I know of your love and devotion to Christ and I am grateful and love you for it. We can all work harder on obedience to all His commandments..we should not be allergic to that word.

[Ian]

maybe i am creating a false reality again. my mind has been feeling a little frenzied, maybe even deranged. i'll get it checked out.

[Steve]

Thousands of years of the same old same old.

[Betsy]

A naysayer is actually person who casts gloom on a positive situation, or maintains a pessimistic attitude. I don't really think this describes me, especially given my last post. Also, you are absolutely right that I have conditions on how I follow the prophet. If a prophet says anything contrary to what the Spirit tells me, I do not heed that counsel. If a prophet's words distract me from my discipleship to the Savior, I do not put much weight on those words. Thankfully, this doesn't happen very often nowadays.

Many here are going to read this and automatically think I don't support the prophets. That is too bad. But this has little effect on me.

A prophet may speak God's words, but he is not God. Their words may be the same, but they are not the same. The scripture is not "whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is ALWAYS the same." Another perfect example of taking scripture too literally.

26 And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.
2nd Nephi 25

[John]

"...members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints do not worship prophets. We worship Christ." That is correct. We worship Christ, and we follow prophets who teach us how best to worship Christ. No one here has even remotely suggested that we worship prophets.

[John]

I would like an example of the words of a prophet that you think we should not follow.

[Steve]

Betsy: The scripture is not "whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is ALWAYS the same." Another perfect example of taking scripture too literally.

This reminds me of the R-rated movies thread. President Benson didn't say "Don't see R-rated movies ever, ever, ever." He only said "Don't see R-rated movies."

I'm curious as to how you can follow any scripture or prophetic statement. It seems they're all riddled with convoluted, exceptional, omission-ridden messages. Where are the plain and simple truths we were promised?