When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

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Re: When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

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Today some are sowing seeds on stony places because they, too, doubt the authority of those who give counsel and direction. There is a tendency on the part of some to ignore, criticize, or rebel because they cannot accept the human delivery system. Some will not accept Jesus Christ as the Savior because they are waiting for a Prince of Peace to come who is not quite as human as Jesus of Nazareth. Questions such as, “Is not this the carpenter’s son?” “Is not this the one born in a manger?” “Can any good … come out of Nazareth?” (John 1:46) are evidences of the weakness of men who are unwilling to accept the human qualities of those who are called and raised up to give direction and counsel.

(Elder Marvin J. Ashton, Who Will Forfeit the Harvest?, October 1978 General Conference)
Suppose you were able to travel back in time and have a conversation with people who lived a thousand or even a hundred years ago. Imagine trying to describe to them some of the modern technologies that you and I take for granted today. For example, what might these people think of us if we told them stories of jumbo jets, microwave ovens, handheld devices that contain vast digital libraries, and videos of our grandchildren that we instantly share with millions of people around the world?

Some might believe us. Most would ridicule, oppose, or perhaps even seek to silence or harm us. Some might attempt to apply logic, reason, and facts as they know them to show that we are misguided, foolish, or even dangerous. They might condemn us for attempting to mislead others.

But of course, these people would be completely mistaken. They might be well-meaning and sincere. They might feel absolutely positive of their opinion. But they simply would not be able to see clearly because they had not yet received the more complete light of truth.

It seems to be a trait of humanity to assume that we are right even when we are wrong. And if that is the case, what hope is there for any of us? Are we destined to drift aimlessly on an ocean of conflicting information, stranded on a raft we have poorly pieced together from our own biases? ...

My dear friends, here is a fairly straightforward experiment, with a guarantee from God, found in a book of ancient scripture available to every man, woman, and child willing to put it to the test:

First, you must search the word of God. That means reading the scriptures and studying the words of the ancient as well as modern prophets regarding the restored gospel of Jesus Christ—not with an intent to doubt or criticize but with a sincere desire to discover truth. Ponder upon the things you will feel, and prepare your minds to receive the truth. “Even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you … that ye can give place for [the word of God].”

Second, you must consider, ponder, fearlessly strive to believe, and be grateful for how merciful the Lord has been to His children from the time of Adam to our day by providing prophets, seers, and revelators to lead His Church and help us find the way back to Him.

Third, you must ask your Heavenly Father, in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, to manifest the truth of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints unto you. Ask with a sincere heart and with real intent, having faith in Christ.

There is also a fourth step, given to us by the Savior: “If any man will do [God’s] will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.” In other words, when you are trying to verify the truth of gospel principles, you must first live them. Put gospel doctrine and Church teachings to the test in your own life. Do it with real intent and enduring faith in God.

If you will do these things, you have a promise from God—who is bound by His word—that He will manifest the truth to you by the power of the Holy Ghost. He will grant you greater light that will allow you to look through the darkness and witness unimaginably glorious vistas incomprehensible to mortal sight.

Some may say that the steps are too hard or that they are not worth the effort. But I suggest that this personal testimony of the gospel and the Church is the most important thing you can earn in this life. It will not only bless and guide you during this life, but it will also have a direct bearing on your life throughout eternity. ...

The more we incline our hearts and minds toward God, the more heavenly light distills upon our souls. And each time we willingly and earnestly seek that light, we indicate to God our readiness to receive more light. Gradually, things that before seemed hazy, dark, and remote become clear, bright, and familiar to us.

By the same token, if we remove ourselves from the light of the gospel, our own light begins to dim—not in a day or a week but gradually over time—until we look back and can’t quite understand why we had ever believed the gospel was true. Our previous knowledge might even seem foolish to us because what once was so clear has again become blurred, hazy, and distant. ...

The Church is a place of welcoming and nurturing, not of separating or criticizing. It is a place where we reach out to encourage, uplift, and sustain one another as we pursue our individual search for divine truth.

In the end, we are all pilgrims seeking God’s light as we journey on the path of discipleship. We do not condemn others for the amount of light they may or may not have; rather, we nourish and encourage all light until it grows clear, bright, and true. ...

My dear friends, please do not delay the moment to seek and strengthen your own personal testimony of God’s divine work, even the work of light and truth.

Your personal testimony of light and truth will not only bless you and your posterity here in mortality, but it will also accompany you throughout all eternity, among worlds without end.

(President Dieter F. Uchtdorf, Receiving a Testimony of Light and Truth, October 2014 General Conference)
At the head of the Church is Jesus Christ, who directs his prophet. … His counselors [and] the members of the Council of the Twelve … are also prophets, seers, and revelators. … Members of the Church do not have to listen to an uncertain trumpet. They can believe the voice of their leaders, knowing they are guided by the Lord. ...

If we follow the advice, counsel, and teachings of the leaders of the Church in their instruction to us, we will not go amiss in that which is important for our own personal salvation and exaltation. ...

How can I help others partake of the goodness and blessings of our Heavenly Father? The answer lies in following the direction received from those we sustain as prophets, seers, and revelators, and others of the General Authorities. Let us study their words, spoken under the Spirit of inspiration, and refer to them often. ...

Our modern-day prophets have encouraged us to make the reading of the conference editions of our Church magazines an important and regular part of our personal study. Thus, general conference becomes, in a sense, a supplement to or an extension of the Doctrine and Covenants.

(President Howard W. Hunter, Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Howard W. Hunter, Ch. 7: Continuous Revelation through Living Prophets)
Some of the things that stand out to me are where President Hunter describes how members will not go amiss "if we follow the advice, counsel, and teachings of the leaders of the Church." How interesting that he does not refer only to grand commandments, decrees, and official declarations, but specifically mentions following "advice, counsel, and teachings" in order to avoid going amiss. This is certainly worth noting in light of our discussion in this thread.

I have enjoyed studying the teachings of our prophets in quorum/group meetings these many years.
When God can do what he will with a man, the man may do what he will with the world.     ~George MacDonald
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Re: When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

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He that is most pliant and submissive to the will of God shows the greatest wisdom among all men. He that sets up his opinion in opposition to the wishes and purposes of the Lord is of all men the farthest from God in that regard. Though he may be fashioned and formed in the image and likeness of the Father, yet he is most unlike the Son unless he can say in his heart, “Father, not my will, but thine, be done.” [Luke 22:42.]

(President Joseph F. Smith, Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith, Ch. 32: Liberty through Obedience)
Looking for the path to safety in the counsel of prophets makes sense to those with strong faith. When a prophet speaks, those with little faith may think that they hear only a wise man giving good advice. Then if his counsel seems comfortable and reasonable, squaring with what they want to do, they take it. If it does not, they consider it either faulty advice or they see their circumstances as justifying their being an exception to the counsel.

(Elder Henry B. Eyring, Finding Safety in Counsel, April 1997 General Conference)
If the Bible were “the end of the prophets,” then it was through lack of faith and belief, and that is the reason the heavens at times were closed and locked and became as iron, and the earth as brass. When the heavens are sealed, the spiritual darkness that follows is not unlike that physical darkness in Nephite history, when “neither candles, neither torches; neither could there be fire kindled with their fine and exceedingly dry wood.” (3 Ne. 8:21.)

The Lord will not force himself upon people, and if they do not believe, they will receive no revelation. If they are content to depend upon their own limited calculations and interpretations, then, of course, the Lord will leave them to their chosen fate. ...

In our day, as in times past, many people expect that if there be revelation it will come with awe-inspiring, earth-shaking display. For many it is hard to accept as revelation those numerous ones in Moses’ time, in Joseph’s time, and in our own year—those revelations which come to prophets as deep, unassailable impressions settling down on the prophet’s mind and heart as dew from heaven or as the dawn dissipates the darkness of night. ...

As we sang “We Thank Thee, O God, for a Prophet” earlier in the afternoon, a thought ran through my mind which I have expressed before. I hope you were all thinking of Joseph Smith, of Brigham Young, of John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, and all the other Presidents. I hope you were thinking of President David O. McKay and President Joseph Fielding Smith, President Harold B. Lee and all of those who have filled this position in these days.

They have contributed a great service. They have done a great work for the people of this world. They have organized the Church and continued to develop it, and it has grown tremendously under their care.

I hope we will always remember that and not let it all be centered in the living person who currently serves, because the works of God continue in all these areas.

(President Spencer W. Kimball, Revelation: The Word of the Lord to His Prophets, April 1977 General Conference)
How should we regard and interpret counsel in the Church? Is there a distinction between the law of the gospel and counsel? Does the counsel of the priesthood differ from that which emanated from secular fields? Do we have a responsibility in following the counsel of the brethren?

President Stephen L Richards answers these questions in this manner:

"... a moment's reflection will convince you of the rather serious regard in which we hold counsel. While it is true that we characterize infractions of the law as sin and we do not apply quite that drastic a terminology to failure to follow counsel, yet in the Church, under the priesthood, counsel always is given for the primary purpose of having the law observed, so that it does occupy a place of standing and importance, almost comparable to that law of the gospel." (Address at Brigham Young University, February 26, 1957, p. 1.) ...

The following of this counsel can only bring eventual happiness. Disobedience to counsel can only accrue to our detriment.

(Elder James A. Cullimore, Conference Report, April 1969)
It is sad but true that many, many people are not acquainted with the words of the prophets, and many refuse to believe, and others often scoff and ridicule the teachings of the Savior. It is extremely sad that many, through their own learning and their sensuous knowledge, become self-satisfied and think that they are sufficient unto themselves and need not heed the word of God; and often, because they have not heard, seen, touched, or talked to God, they deny even his very existence, and use their influence to dissuade others.

But all of this ignorance, derision, scoffing, and ridicule does not destroy the truth, which finally will triumph. We must learn to live by faith and believe in the words of the Lord, especially in those things which we mortals do not and cannot fully comprehend. ...

It is most reassuring to know that the prophets in different climes and in different dispensations were in complete harmony, and that their prophecies have been fulfilled to the letter. ...

Our Heavenly Father, knowing our weaknesses and our need for constant direction, sends us prophets to continually teach us and keep us reminded of this plan of life and salvation. Just yesterday we sustained David O. McKay as Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Our salvation and that of our loved ones depends on our listening to and heeding the words of the prophets, realizing that we must believe all that God has revealed, all that he does now reveal, and that he will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God.

To those who question these things, I should like to emphasize this one fact: Everything that was taught by the prophets and by Jesus Christ himself, as recorded in Holy Writ, is for the benefit of mankind, and if accepted and lived will make for better individuals, better communities, a better world where we can live in love and peace with one another.

Man by his own formula has failed to accomplish these things. He has no effective plan, and any failure is not because the gospel has failed, but because man has failed to live its teachings.

(President N. Eldon Tanner, Conference Report, October 1969)
Now, as to faith: Believe me, you can count on all that God has said. More than a hundred thirty-six years ago, to a young prophet he said simply, ". . . tobacco is not . . . good for man. . . ." (D&C 89:8.) It has taken medical science more than a century to prove that the Lord knew what he was talking about. When he tells us something, he expects us to believe it. It doesn't take faith to believe the Word of Wisdom any more. It just takes a little common sense.

I have been privileged to know some of the most brilliant men of the earth, in many countries, worldwide. I have a great respect for research and scholarship and for the skills and talents and minds of competent men. But I have never known a man who knew enough so that I was willing to trust him with my everlasting life. I only know one place to put such trust. Oh, I plead with you to go all the way with your Father in heaven, for you will see all of us shall—in time and in eternity the promises of God fulfilled. This you can count on.

(Elder Richard L. Evans, Conference Report, October 1969)
When God can do what he will with a man, the man may do what he will with the world.     ~George MacDonald
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Re: When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

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I have often felt the reason we don't understand God is because we are so unlike him. By that, I mean that even though man is like God physically, spiritually man is far from God. Fortunately, the Lord has given us specific direction and guidance to get us into condition so we grow closer to him spiritually also.

However, regretfully, though men draweth nigh unto God with their mouths, and honoreth him with their lips, their hearts are far from him. (See Matt. 15:8.) This is true primarily because we are concerned with what we want to do rather than with what God wants us to do.

If we face facts, we will realize we are all afflicted with the same malady. It is the root cause of all the problems and suffering in the world, both collectively and individually, and has always been. What is this cause? It is a very simple, one-word answer—selfishness. I use this word in its broadest sense, which includes greed and covetousness. We are selfish, and selfishness is not like God.

We endlessly do what we want to do instead of doing what the Lord wants us to do. It isn't that we don't know what the Lord wants us to do. He has made it abundantly clear through revelation to his prophets, but we are too concerned with our own wants. ....

When we act, we must always have in mind what the Lord has said. Of course, the ideal would be to harmonize our desires with the will of the Lord; then we can always do what we want and still have the approval of the Lord, but this is seldom the case.

(Elder Hartman Rector, Jr., Conference Report, October 1969)
Those who do not accept God's revelation through his prophets have devised numerous philosophies from their limited human reasoning and seemingly think that they can find happiness and the satisfaction of their souls by ignoring God's plan of salvation.

One of the greatest threats to the work of the Lord today comes from false educational ideas. There is a growing tendency of teachers within and without the church to make academic interpretations of gospel teachings—to read, as a prophet-leader has said, "by the lamp of their own conceit." Unfortunately, much in the sciences, the arts, politics, and the entertainment field, as has been well said by an eminent scholar, is "all dominated by this humanistic approach which ignores God and his word as revealed through the prophets." This kind of worldly system apparently hopes to draw men away from God by making man the "measure of all things," as some worldly philosophers have said. ...

It seems a curious thing that in all dispensations, our worst enemies have been those within—who have betrayed the works of the Lord. ...

May I fervently pray that all Saints and truth-seekers everywhere will attune their listening ears to these prophet-leaders instead of to some demagogue who seeks to make capital of social discount and gain political influence.

(Elder Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, October 1968)
When God can do what he will with a man, the man may do what he will with the world.     ~George MacDonald
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Re: When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

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What do General Authorities talk about in conference? Some people say that they are out of their province when they speak up on temporal or "political issues. President John Taylor said of these conferences:

". . . as we possess bodies as well as spirits, and have to live by eating, drinking, and wearing, it becomes necessary that temporal matters should be considered and discussed in our Conferences, and that we should deliberate upon all things that are calculated to benefit, bless, and exalt the Saints of God, whether they refer to our spiritual affairs or to our avocations and duties in life as husbands and wives, as parents and children . . . whether they refer to the policy we should pursue in our commercial relations . . . or to any other matter affecting us as human beings composing part of the body politic of this nation or as citizens of the world." (JD, Vol. II, pp. 353-54.) ...

We don't have to listen to them or pay heed to them—we have our agency. But there is a lesson in scripture to consider.

The children of Israel entered the land of Edom. It was infested with serpents and snakes, the bite of which was so painful and so dangerous that they called them fiery, flying serpents. They cried for deliverance.

". . . And Moses prayed for the people.

"And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

"And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived." (Num. 21:7-9.)

"How silly," some must have said. "How can such a thing cure me? I'll not show my stupidity by paying any attention," and some would not look.

In First Nephi we read that "after they were bitten he prepared a way that they might be healed; and the labor which they had to perform was to look; and because of the simpleness of the way, or the easiness of it, there were many who perished." (1 Ne. 17:41.) ...

We ought to, indeed we must, heed the counsel of these men, for the Lord said, "What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

"For behold, and lo, the Lord is God, and the Spirit beareth record, and the record is true, and the truth abideth forever and ever. Amen." (D&C 1:38-39.)

Though it is my privilege to serve among them, I have not forgotten for one moment that these men, the brethren, are the servants of the Lord.

(Elder Boyd K. Packer, Conference Report, October 1968)
When God can do what he will with a man, the man may do what he will with the world.     ~George MacDonald
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Re: When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

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Even small children can understand these things.
Tell the children that we have a special leader to follow, our prophet. Explain that a prophet is a man who speaks with God—God tells the prophet what we should do. Tell the children that if we follow the prophet, we will be happy and Heavenly Father will bless us. Explain that to follow the prophet means to do the things he tells us to do.

(Behold Your Little Ones: Nursery Manual, Lesson 24)
When God can do what he will with a man, the man may do what he will with the world.     ~George MacDonald
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Re: When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

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For example, we will say, here is a man on the right or the left, who declares that he cannot perform this or that duty unless he receives a witness to himself, direct from the Lord, that He requires the duty at his hands. Upon what principle has he the right to question any requirement made by the constituted authority of God on the earth? Is he entitled to any such right? He is not. He is not entitled to the right of bringing up any argument in his own mind, as to the right or wrong of it, or to in any way remonstrate against any requirement the Lord has made of him through His servants. He is under obligation to obey, whether the Spirit of the Lord gives him a manifestation or not. When the authorities call for so many loads of rock to be hauled for the Temple, should every man wait to know by direct revelation to himself whether he should draw rock or not? Or should all acknowledge the call as the word of the Lord to us, and promptly and willingly obey? When we asked the brethren to build this New Tabernacle, did they wait to get a revelation to themselves before they commenced the work? No; but while they were engaged in that work, when they knelt down to pray before the Lord, His Spirit was with them, and it justified the act. And so will it be with every duty that is required of this people, if they perform the same in faith before God.

(President Brigham Young, Remarks delivered in the Old Tabernacle, November 1867)
When God can do what he will with a man, the man may do what he will with the world.     ~George MacDonald
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Re: When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

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Referring to D&C 68:
I call your attention to the fact that there is no limitation as to the matters to be covered by that scripture of which the Lord speaks. Having in mind that this Church of ours is a practical Church, that it deals with temporal as well as with spiritual affairs, I submit that whatever comes from the voices of those who hold that authority is scripture, no matter of what they may speak. That conclusion to me is inevitable.

Anything and everything that affects the well-being of us Latter-day Saints or that has to do with our religion, may become part of that scripture; and when the servants of God speak to us about such things, speaking under the inspiration of the Lord, then their words become scripture.

How shall we know when they speak under the inspiration of the Lord?

I cannot tell you how to know, but I can tell you that every man holding the Priesthood, who is obeying the commandments of the Lord and is living righteously, he will know without doubt when God's servants speak under inspiration. The spirit will bear true witness.

(President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., General Conference, April 1944)
When God can do what he will with a man, the man may do what he will with the world.     ~George MacDonald
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Re: When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

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We find ourselves often quoting the words of the prophets, and, lest there be some doubt as to what a prophet is, we submit that it is one who, under the appointment and inspiration of the Lord God, speaks truth as the spirit moves him, regardless of what the world is thinking and regardless of what men would like to hear.

And, therefore, a prophet is seldom popular, and the cost of being a prophet is always great, for he may be called upon to say those things which are not pleasing, even unto himself, and he may find himself fighting against a tide of mass-misconception, and, as history records, be stoned, crucified, banished, ridiculed, shunned, or rejected. For the truth is not pleasing unto all men, and time has proved that majorities are not always right.

It is as one ancient American prophet said, when he found his words received with resentment:

Do not say that I have spoken harshly against you; for if ye do, ye will revile against the truth; for I have spoken the words of your Maker. I know that the words of truth are hard against all uncleanness; but the righteous fear them not, for they love the truth and are not shaken. (Book of Mormon, 2nd Nephi 9:40.)

It is not important that a prophet should say those things with which you and I are in full accord. But it is important that you and I should bring ourselves into full accord with those things which a prophet speaks by virtue of his office and calling.

(Elder Richard L. Evans, Improvement Era, 1939)
When God can do what he will with a man, the man may do what he will with the world.     ~George MacDonald
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Re: When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

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One day when President Grant was living, I sat in my office across the street following a general conference. A man came over to see me, an elderly man. He was very upset about what had been said in this conference by some of the Brethren, including myself. I could tell from his speech that he came from a foreign land. After I had quieted him enough so he would listen, I said, "Why did you come to America?"

"I came here because a prophet of God told me to come."

"Who was the prophet?" I continued.

"Wilford Woodruff."

"Do you believe Wilford Woodruff was a prophet of God?"

"Yes," said he.

"Do you believe that his successor, President Lorenzo Snow, was a prophet of God?"

"Yes, I do."

"Do you believe that President Joseph F. Smith was a prophet of God?"

"Yes, sir."

Then came the "sixty-four dollar question." "Do you believe that Heber J. Grant is a prophet of God?"

His answer: "I think he ought to keep his mouth shut about old age assistance."

Now I tell you that a man in his position is on the way to apostasy. He is forfeiting his chances for eternal life. So is everyone who cannot follow the living prophet of God.

(Elder Marion G. Romney, General Conference, April 1953)
When God can do what he will with a man, the man may do what he will with the world.     ~George MacDonald
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Re: When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

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The Latter-day Saints who hearken to the words of the Lord, given to them touching their political, social, and financial concerns, I say, and say it boldly, that they will have wisdom which is altogether superior to the wisdom of the children of darkness, or the children of this world. I know this by the revelations of the Lord Jesus Christ, and by the results of my own actions. They who have hearkened to the counsels given to them in temporal matters, have invariably bettered their condition temporally and spiritually.

(President Brigham Young, Discourses of Brigham Young, 1867; emphasis added)
When God can do what he will with a man, the man may do what he will with the world.     ~George MacDonald
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Re: When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

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The Church exists for the welfare of its members. It holds to the doctrine that "men are that they might have joy." Therefore, whatever affects human welfare, temporally or spiritually, on earth or in heaven, is accepted as the concern of the Church.

This doctrine leads the Church into problems of man's physical, mental, moral, economic, social, and political well-being, into his every need. ... It does not hesitate, because of individual prejudices or the danger of making enemies, to speak frankly and fully about any and every phase of human life. To cower in some one corner of human need is held in contempt by the Church; and certainly such a church should be held in contempt. ...

By this doctrine, Church leaders feel themselves free and under obligation to discourse on any and every need of the day and of man, no matter under what man-given name it appears. They would be poor leaders if silence was enjoined upon them within any field of human interest. Indeed, the very life of the Church is involved in this free discussion of man's welfare.

(Elder John A. Widtsoe, Evidences and Reconciliations, 1943)
When God can do what he will with a man, the man may do what he will with the world.     ~George MacDonald
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Re: When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

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this sunday, our stake is teaching from elder oaks' latest general conference talk. he stated the following:
The Church in its divine mission and we in our personal lives seem to face increasing opposition today. Perhaps as the Church grows in strength and we members grow in faith and obedience, Satan increases the strength of his opposition so we will continue to have “opposition in all things.”

Some of this opposition even comes from Church members. Some who use personal reasoning or wisdom to resist prophetic direction give themselves a label borrowed from elected bodies—“the loyal opposition.” However appropriate for a democracy, there is no warrant for this concept in the government of God’s kingdom, where questions are honored but opposition is not (see Matthew 26:24).

Elder Dallin H. Oaks, Opposition in All Things, April 2016 General Conference
i think this instruction is helpful in many ways. first of all, elder oaks states that the church seems to be facing increasing opposition today. he further warned that some opposition comes from within the church. this is an important reminder to prepare ourselves to perceive oppositional behavior when it comes from church members (ourselves included). elder oaks describes a particular form of such opposition: using "personal reasoning or wisdom to resist prophetic direction." from a worldly view, reasoning and wisdom would be considered good things. however, elder oaks teaches that when reasoning and wisdom are used to resist prophetic direction, they become forms of opposition to the church.

elder oaks further explains that such resistance to prophetic direction cannot properly be labeled as "the loyal opposition." this phrase originated in british parliament, and is used to describe legislators who oppose certain actions or policies of an incumbent government, while still remaining loyal to that government's authority. this concept allows for a democratic government in which dissenters are not accused of treason. elder oaks makes in clear that "there is no warrant for this concept in the government of God's kingdom."

the government of God's kingdom is just that: a kingdom. it is not a democracy. in this kingdom, opposition (or, resistance to prophetic direction) is not "honored." what does elder oaks mean, by teaching that resistance to prophetic direction is not honored? he adds: "see Matthew 26:24". that scripture reads: "The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born." this scripture refers to the concept of betrayal, which provides a stark contrast to the democratic concept of "loyal opposition."

this church is the kingdom of God on the earth. God has appointed prophets to be leaders in this kingdom. to resist their direction is to betray God Himself.
so let it be written... so let it be done.
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Re: When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

Post by Steve »

Thank you, Ian, for pointing us to that talk and for the insightful commentary. As we exercise our agency every day, it's useful to truly understand the implications and consequences of the choices we make.
When God can do what he will with a man, the man may do what he will with the world.     ~George MacDonald
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Re: When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

Post by Steve »

I am reminded of the statement by Paul to the Ephesians when he said:
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
And then he outlines carefully for what purpose they were called:
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body (the Church) of Christ.
And then he goes further and makes a statement that I think is very important indeed to every Latter-day Saint:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive. (Ephesians 4:11-12, 14.)
In many other places Paul also warned us against the deceivers who would come even before his departing. And they have continued to come, and they are among us today. The authorities which the Lord has placed in his Church constitute for the people of the Church a harbor, a place of refuge, a hitching post, as it were. No one in this Church will ever go far astray who ties himself securely to the Church Authorities whom the Lord has placed in his Church. ...

The Lord has chosen them; he has given them specific responsibilities. And those people who stand close to them will be safe. And, conversely, whenever one begins to go his own way in opposition to authority, he is in grave danger. I would not say that those leaders whom the Lord chooses are necessarily the most brilliant, nor the most highly trained, but they are the chosen, and when chosen of the Lord they are his recognized authority, and the people who stay close to them have safety. ...

The Lord is at the helm, brothers and sisters, and he will continue to be there, and his work will go forward. The important question is whether we, as individuals, will be going in that same direction. It's up to us. ...

There are many people in this Church today who think they live, but they are dead to the spiritual things. And I believe even many who are making pretenses of being active are also spiritually dead.

(Elder Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference, April 1951)
When God can do what he will with a man, the man may do what he will with the world.     ~George MacDonald
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Re: When Does A Prophet Speak As A Prophet?

Post by Steve »

 
Another crystal clear message on this subject—definitely a must-read:
...when the counsels of God come to us through his servants, and they are contrary to our prepossessed notions, we forget that the inspiration of the Almighty is with our brethren, that the power of the Highest is with them, and, as Brother Snow alluded to Jonah this morning, if we do not go to Tarshish (Jonah 1:3), we frequently go somewhere else to avoid doing the things that God requires at our hands.

Now, the day has come when we, as a people, will have to listen to the voice of the servants of God, to the instructions of the Almighty through his servants, and obey them as implicitly as though God was in our midst. Yet, how often is it the case that, when we have counsel imparted unto us, we feel as though we had some suggestions to make that would make that counsel better and more applicable to us. I have seen the Spirit of God grieved, and the understanding of the man of God beclouded by men taking such a course as this. When the servant of God has been under the inspiration of the Almighty to counsel a certain course, somebody has stepped forward and suggested something different, and by that means the counsel of God has been darkened, the spirit of revelation has been grieved, and the benefit which otherwise would be, has not been received.

I have seen this under various circumstances, and I have looked upon it as an evil and something we should never do. When the counsel of God comes through his servants to us, we should bow to that, no matter how much it may come in contact with our preconceived ideas; submit to it as though God spoke it, and feel such a reverence towards it as though we believed that the servant of God had the inspiration of the Almighty resting upon him. While many are willing to admit that the servants of God understand everything connected with the work of God, and with the various departments of it on the earth, they think there are some kinds of knowledge which they possess in a superior degree to them who preside over us. They will admit that the servants of God may possess all the knowledge that is needed to spread the Gospel and have it carried to the remotest regions, to build up Zion; but there is something connected with their particular calling that, they think, they understand to a far greater extent than he or they who are appointed to preside over them.

This feeling is not infrequently manifested. The persons who exhibit it would be reluctant to say in words that this is their feeling, but they express it in their actions. This causes an interference with the Spirit of God, and frequently counsel is darkened by men taking this course. I know that if we follow implicitly the counsel of God's servants when they are inspired to give counsel, even if they may not know everything about the matter, we will be blessed if we bow to it, and God will overrule everything for good, and it will result as God wishes it.

It is a great thing for us to have the counsel and instruction of the Almighty in our midst. The servants of God are inspired by the power of the Holy Ghost, and the revelations of Jesus are within them; and if we follow their counsels strictly, we shall be led into the presence of God, and I know that they are the only men on the earth who have this power, authority, and knowledge. If we take a course of this kind, you can readily perceive how harmoniously everything connected with the work of God will roll forth; beauty and order will be witnessed in all the ramifications of the kingdom of God at home and abroad, and salvation will be extended unto us.

(Elder George Q. Cannon, Remarks made in the Tabernacle, January 1, 1865)
When God can do what he will with a man, the man may do what he will with the world.     ~George MacDonald
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