Church Discipline

[Tuly]

This statement from the LDS newsroom is a result form the article that follows. I apologize now to the exposure of the biased article written by The NY Times.

Church Statement — 11 June 2014
Church Responds to Church Discipline Questions
Salt Lake City —
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/c ... ewsRoomTop

The Church issued the following statement today in response to questions from the news media regarding Church discipline:

"The Church is a family made up of millions of individuals with diverse backgrounds and opinions. There is room for questions and we welcome sincere conversations. We hope those seeking answers will find them and happiness through the gospel of Jesus Christ.

"Sometimes members’ actions contradict Church doctrine and lead others astray. While uncommon, some members in effect choose to take themselves out of the Church by actively teaching and publicly attempting to change doctrine to comply with their personal beliefs. This saddens leaders and fellow members. In these rare cases, local leaders have the responsibility to clarify false teachings and prevent other members from being misled. Decisions are made by local leaders and not directed or coordinated by Church headquarters.

"Actions to address a person’s membership and standing in their congregation are convened after lengthy periods of counseling and encouragement to reconsider behavior. Ultimately, the door is always open for people to return to the Church."

Two Activists in Mormon Church Threatened With Excommunication
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/12/us/tw ... c=twr&_r=2

By LAURIE GOODSTEIN - JUNE 11, 2014 - NY Times

Two Mormons who have gained national attention for pushing their church to ordain women to the priesthood and to accept openly gay members have been notified this week that they face excommunication for apostasy.

The two are Kate Kelly, a human rights lawyer who founded the Ordain Women movement, and John P. Dehlin, the creator of a popular online forum for Mormons and a doctoral candidate in psychology who has published his research into the problems faced by gay church members.

It is the first time since 1993, when the church ejected a handful of intellectuals known as the “September Six,” that it has moved so forcefully to quash such prominent critical voices.

The move is a sudden change of course for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which had been working to project an image of greater diversity and openness. The church’s “I’m a Mormon” advertising campaign featured an ethnic rainbow of faces and some members who proudly identified as feminist, gay or liberal. And in the last year, the church has been trying to comfort members with doubts by posting essays on its website addressing delicate historical and theological issues, such as polygamy and why blacks were mostly excluded from the priesthood until 1978.

The church issued a statement late Wednesday saying: “Local leaders have the responsibility to clarify false teachings and prevent other members from being misled. Decisions are made by local leaders and not directed or coordinated by church headquarters.”

Ms. Kelly and Mr. Dehlin were notified of the action against them on two consecutive days, leading them to suspect that the move was coordinated by officials in church headquarters in Salt Lake City.

Mr. Dehlin was sent a letter on Saturday by the president of his stake, or church region, whom he said he had never met, calling on him to either resign from the church or face a hearing before a disciplinary council. The letter, which Mr. Dehlin provided to The New York Times, said, “Because of the love I have for you, I have become concerned about some of your recent statements and actions regarding this church and your place in it.” It cited an Internet posting in which Mr. Dehlin wrote that he no longer believed many fundamental “truth claims” the church makes.

Mr. Dehlin said that he considered himself a Mormon, along with his wife and four children, and that he loved the church, but he has been open about his doubts. He is the founder of “Mormon Stories,” a website with podcast interviews on hot-button issues for Mormons questioning their faith. His following is not insubstantial: Many podcasts were downloaded 40,000 or 50,000 times, but some twice that amount. He said his site tried to walk the line between advocating for the church, and the hostility to the church often seen on “ex-Mormon” websites.

A speech he gave at a TED event at Utah State University last November on being an “ally” to gay Mormons was also widely viewed online.

“Mormon Stories has always been about administering to those who have doubt and have hard questions,” Mr. Dehlin said in an interview on Wednesday. “And I think Kate is doing the same thing.”

“I worry that the church is kind of shooting the messenger,” he said. “They’re shooting the people who are trying to help and be part of the solution.”

The Ordain Women movement, organized only last year, has clearly agitated church leaders by mobilizing protesters to travel to Salt Lake City for the church’s big general conference, in order to stand in line and be turned away from entering the male-only priesthood meeting. The last such demonstration in March drew about 500 protesters who carried “proxy cards” signed by more than 400 additional supporters. However, the notion of opening the male-only priesthood to women does not have broad support, even from many Mormon women who say they are concerned about inequality and gender issues in the church.

Ms. Kelly received an email on June 8 from her local bishop in Virginia informing her that she faced “disfellowshipment or excommunication, on the grounds of apostasy,” and calling her to a disciplinary council hearing on June 22. Disfellowshipment means limiting the participation of a church member, while excommunication means removing all rights and privileges of membership. Ms. Kelly’s stake president had warned her in a letter in May that if she did not shut down the website, dissociate herself from it and repent, she faced excommunication for “openly, repeatedly and deliberately acting in public opposition to the church and its leaders after having been counseled not to do so.”

The letter said that she was “not required to change your thinking or the questions you may have in your own mind,” but that she must resolve her questions privately with her bishop.

“I’m just really, really, really heartbroken,” Ms. Kelly said.

She said she told the stake president and bishop, “What you’re asking me to do is to live inauthentically, and that’s not something I’m willing to do.”

The excommunication moves may have been foreshadowed last month in an open letter from Michael Otterson, managing director of the church’s public affairs office. He wrote that ordaining women would mean “radically redefining how Jesus structured His church,” and that church officials would not engage with those “who make nonnegotiable demands” that are “suggestive of apostasy.”

[Ian]

we can expect nothing less from the ny times. of course the two people are portrayed as victims.

[Betsy]

Kate Kelly's whole platform has been grounded in her martyrdom. She's not willing to be guided spiritually when it means her politics must be sacrificed.

[Edward]

The irony is that these people who claim to "love the church" don't love it enough to obey it. They expect it to "accept everybody for who they are," yet they cannot accept IT for what it is. Thus they prove that what they really love is their own ideal, and whom they really accept are those who think like they do. Their idea of "open-mindedness" has in fact closed their minds, and made them blind. The hypocracy and irony are staggering.

[Jezebel]

It is horrible how they want these people to be something they're not. Change and progress can't be stopped just because a few people are afraid of new ideas! Get with the times. It's time we stopped clutching traditional values and start embracing a more modern view of the world. I can imagine what poor Ms. Kelly must feel; she stands for change and progress, and she gets shut down. Well! Maybe excommunication is best after all. Clearly, this church has no place for the ideas of today!

[Jezebel]

Also: is there a feature that can make my name flash or glow while I am online? Or maybe have a little crown appear over my avatar? My profile deserves some extra sparkle after all.

I am surprised Noah hasn't requested the same thing, but then, he never did have much taste. Anyway, just trying to spice things up around here; my but you people are drab!

[King Noah]

Shhhhh, shhhhhh, you try too hard, my dear. Not another word, shhhhh. Hush now. I want to hear how the rest of this plays out, and your high-pitched whining gives me indigestion. It just isn't becoming of a lady. I do appreciate your intentions, though. I really do. Guards, seize her.

[Ian]

i wonder how long jezebel will be our newest member. by the way, elder ballard has written a very informative article regarding church discipline.

I remember as a child occasionally coming unkempt to the dinner table. My mother wisely sent me to clean up and then return. My parents would have been pained if I had taken offense and had run off—and I would have been foolish to do so. In the same way, the servants of the Lord occasionally find that they must, in loving concern, send some of Heavenly Father’s children out the door so they can return clean once again. The Lord does not want us to “miss supper.” In fact, he has a great feast prepared for those who return clean and pure through the door. He is greatly saddened when anyone decides they prefer to be unclean and miss the meal, or when they find an excuse to take offense, or when they run away. He is pleased to extend the chance to start over.

Elder M. Russell Ballard, A Chance to Start Over: Church Disciplinary Councils and the Restoration of Blessings, September 1990 Ensign

[Jezebel]

Are you hinting at excommunicating ME like poor Ms. Kelly? Why, that would be simply awful! I have so much to share, about fashion, hair, my beautiful jewelry - you'll love it my dears. Let us be merry after all! Noah my darling, as one ruler to another, let us not quarrel! And after all, with a waist size like yours you should be grateful indigestion is all you suffer! I am just here to make things fun, fun, fun!

[Ian]

kate kelly recently said:

"We feel as faithful, active Mormon women we have nothing in common with people who oppose the church and want to protest against it," she said. "The church is its members. We aren't against the church, we are the church."

Tad Walsh, LDS Church: Aims of 'Ordain Women' detract from dialogue, Deseret News, Monday, March 17 2014 8:55 a.m. MDT

her excommunication would be kind of ironic, wouldn't it.

[Betsy]

Here's a great little op-ed by a graduate of Harvard Divinity School. I'll provide both the link and the entire text since it is not very long. I think I agree with pretty much everything she says here. http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile3/5806 ... n.html.csp

As an LDS graduate of Harvard Divinity School, which trains clergy and religious scholars, I might be expected to align with those who believe the LDS Church should ordain women. I do not. While I respect their opinions and desires, I do not share them. More importantly, I am uncomfortable with their methods for seeking change in the church, which work well for other causes like civil rights campaigns in the public square but are, in my view, inappropriate for advancing personal views in the LDS Church.

First, I do not support the creation of any outside organization to publicly agitate on internal church matters. As a member of the church, I have committed to sustain its leaders. "Sustain" need not mean "always agree with," but to my mind, surely it means not creating a publicity-seeking organization in direct opposition to the church’s position, inviting members to openly oppose both the church’s policies and its reasonable requests. It is possible to air concerns in a productive, straightforward, and private (rather than divisive, symbolic, and purposefully public) manner.

Second, I do not believe in making demands of church leaders. A church is a voluntary private association based on shared convictions (one of which, for Mormonism, is the inspired calling of leaders). Members of the church may appropriately advocate change, but not demand it as one would demand a civil right or insist that leaders accept their personal views. The name of the organization, "Ordain Women," is a grammatical imperative that feels inappropriate to me.

Finally, I have neither the divine calling nor the necessary perspective to resolve complicated doctrinal issues for the church. Intellectual discussion and questioning of doctrine is the privilege of all members. But to claim that my own interpretation is right for the whole church is beyond the scope of my authority. That is, I believe, what prophets are for.

I embrace the Mormon doctrine that God gives knowledge "line upon line, precept upon precept." Sometimes the church changes suddenly; sometimes it changes slowly over generations. Changes could be precipitated by individual members making perspectives known, but it is not inevitably so. In any case, it is not up to any person — not even a prophet — to decide the timing or content of revelation.

Ashley Isaacson Woolley has a master of Theological Studies from Harvard Divinity School and a J.D. from Stanford Law School. She is a scholar, editor, wife, mother and Mormon. She lives in Switzerland.

[Ian]

as elder oaks recently explained, even if church leaders wanted to "ordain women," they would not be permitted to do so.

The First Presidency and the Council of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve, who preside over the Church, are empowered to make many decisions affecting Church policies and procedures—matters such as the location of Church buildings and the ages for missionary service. But even though these presiding authorities hold and exercise all of the keys delegated to men in this dispensation, they are not free to alter the divinely decreed pattern that only men will hold offices in the priesthood.

Elder Dallin H. Oaks, The Keys and Authority of the Priesthood, April 2014 General Conference

kate kelly is wasting her time.

[Tuly]

From Meridian Magazine - this is by Maurine Proctor - By the way we know Peggy Fletcher Stack's brother quite well. http://www.ldsmag.com/article/1/14497

Some newspapers have taken that a step further and run polls asking readers whether they think Kelly and Dehlin should be excommunicated. The Salt Lake Tribune asked “Would excommunicating these two individuals be the right move for the LDS Church?” with one of the responses being, “No, this will be a PR nightmare for the Church.”

Of course, asking for a public opinion poll about anyone’s possible excommunication is totally inappropriate, because as any Latter-day Saint knows this is a very grave matter not a quick poll to attract readers. The question about whether this is the “right move” also comes from a false paradigm as if considering the welfare of someone’s soul should be calculated by whether others will approve of it or not or whether it will be good for the Church’s “image”.

What is telling, however, is the way Kelly’s and Dehlin’s stories are being told as captured in this piece from The Daily Beast. “Kate Kelly and John Dehlin both openly profess their love for the Church of Latter-Day Saints and their fellow Mormons. They are both deeply invested in their wards (local congregations) and committed to their faith.”

Yet in the letter that Dehlin’s stake president Bryan C. King sent him was this revelation, “Ordinarily, I prefer to speak in person and in private about such matters and I offer you the opportunity to do so. I am aware of your recent email to Bishop Hunt…in which you requested that you not be considered a member of the ward, and that your names be removed from the home teaching and visiting teaching rolls of the Church.”

This certainly casts a different light upon the situation. Instead of a martyr to an inquisition, he is an agent who has made choices.

One writer, commenting on The Daily Beast article said that the press is eating up this martyr narrative and then notes, “Dehlin has publicly stated that he doesn’t believe in God, questions whether there was a historical Jesus, denies the divinity of LDS scripture, rejects all of the actual doctrines of the LDS church.

“The press makes this into an LBGT issue and pokes fun at the LDS Church. Dehlin is an open active non-believer using his church status to build a movement against the church as it is today. Dehlin uses his status as a “faithful Mormon” as a platform for building his own movement. He wants to redefine what the LDS church is and what it means to be a member. He’s hardly the martyr the press is making him out to be. If you reject all of a religion’s truth claims, is it unfair for them to excommunicate you?”

Peggy Fletcher Stack writes this in The Salt Lake Tribune about Kelly. “Mormon feminist, returned missionary and temple-attending member Kate Kelly cherishes her church — so much so that she desires to play an even bigger role in it.” She notes later in the article that Kelly was “totally, totally floored” to receive the letter from her bishop.

Really? Kelly is a very smart woman and human rights attorney. She has blatantly disregarded several warnings from the Church to “cease and desist” She has been told that women couldn’t receive tickets for the General Conference priesthood session and she persisted. She was asked not to bring her march onto Temple Square during conference. She did anyway. She has been asked to take down her website.

[Ian]

Instead, she and her cohorts have amplified their website efforts including creating a series of six “proselytizing” discussion dedicated to teach women how they are oppressed and unequal in the Church. This includes a rousing game of “Patriarchy Bingo.” This is a counterfeit of the old six discussions that used to be used in missionary work, even mimicking the same color scheme.

In a live interview with the Salt Lake Tribune, she said that she just wanted an answer on the ordination of women, but at what point to you acknowledge that you have been given an answer in repeated ways?

How much more clear could Elder Dallin H. Oaks have been in the April 2014 General Conference when he said, “The First Presidency and the Council of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve, who preside over the Church, are empowered to make many decisions affecting Church policies and procedures—matters such as the location of Church buildings and the ages for missionary service. But even though these presiding authorities hold and exercise all of the keys delegated to men in this dispensation, they are not free to alter the divinely decreed pattern that only men will hold offices in the priesthood.”

The public is not free to make judgments on whether Dehlin or Kelly have committed apostasy, but the Church is free to make that judgment. Dehlin and Kelly are free to say whatever they would like, express their concerns with great fervency, but not to do it from the platform of claiming to be members in good standing as they seek to build a following for their divergent point of view.

This is what the Church has to say about apostasy. “Church discipline may be …used to address apostasy — the repeated, clear and open public opposition to the Church, its leaders and its doctrine. If someone seeks to teach as doctrine something that is contrary to the Church’s beliefs, attempts to persuade other Church members to their point of view or publicly insists the Church change its doctrine to align with their personal views, they would be counseled by a local Church leader and asked to cease that practice. If they fail to do so, Church discipline may follow.”

This does not mean that people cannot have questions about doctrine or discuss points of view. It does mean that you cannot raise your hand to sustain our leaders as “prophets, seers, and revelators” and at the same time be in open, public opposition to them and the revealed doctrine and rally others to do the same.

Recently the Church has published this statement:

"The Church is a family made up of millions of individuals with diverse backgrounds and opinions. There is room for questions and we welcome sincere conversations. We hope those seeking answers will find them and happiness through the gospel of Jesus Christ.

"Sometimes members’ actions contradict Church doctrine and lead others astray. While uncommon, some members in effect choose to take themselves out of the Church by actively teaching and publicly attempting to change doctrine to comply with their personal beliefs. This saddens leaders and fellow members. In these rare cases, local leaders have the responsibility to clarify false teachings and prevent other members from being misled. Decisions are made by local leaders and not directed or coordinated by Church headquarters.

"Actions to address a person’s membership and standing in their congregation are convened after lengthy periods of counseling and encouragement to reconsider behavior. Ultimately, the door is always open for people to return to the Church.”

Jan Shipps, a retired religion professor from Indiana, who is a non-Mormon expert on the Church told the Associated Press, “Singling out two critics of church policy who have made themselves very visible seems like ‘boundary maintenance’ by the church. They are saying to folks: ‘If you go this far, you are risking membership.’”

Meanwhile, many people are offended that Kelly and Dehlin will have disciplinary councils. They have bought the narrative that these two are victims and martyrs. Facts do not seem to bear that out. Instead, they are agents who seem to be eager to whip the Church and shame the leaders, using the media as their cohorts.

If all the world stood up to belittle the Church, it wouldn’t make them right. In the April 2014 General Conference, Elder Russell M. Nelson noted that during World War I, there was a popular song that vowed that 50 million people cannot be wrong. “But, in fact,” he affirmed, “50 million people can be wrong.”

[Tuly]

I would consider this an "epistle" from our Church leaders.

https://www.lds.org/prophets-and-apostl ... t?lang=eng

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Office of the First Presidency

47 East South Temple Street, Salt Lake City, Utah 84150

June 28, 2014

In God's plan for the happiness and eternal progression of His children, the blessings of His priesthood are equally available to men and women. Only men are ordained to serve in priesthood offices. All service in the Church has equal merit in the eyes of God. We express profound gratitude for the millions of Latter-day Saint women and men who willingly and effectively serve God and His children. Because of their faith and service, they have discovered that the Church is a place of spiritual nourishment and growth.

We understand that from time to time Church members will have questions about Church doctrine, history, or practice. Members are always free to ask such questions and earnestly seek greater understanding. We feel special concern, however, for members who distance themselves from Church doctrine or practice and, by advocacy, encourage others to follow them.

Simply asking questions has never constituted apostasy. Apostasy is repeatedly acting in clear, open, and deliberate public opposition to the Church or its faithful leaders, or persisting, after receiving counsel, in teaching false doctrine.

The Council of
The First Presidency and
Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints